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 Anyone at all paying attention to... -Direhaggis- 25-04-2022 07:26
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... wtf_dragon 26-04-2022 16:28
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... aubergine 28-04-2022 21:11
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... -Direhaggis- 29-04-2022 00:28
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... wtf_dragon 03-05-2022 16:41
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... Fred-A. 30-04-2022 18:13
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... -Direhaggis- 03-05-2022 17:42
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... wtf_dragon 03-05-2022 21:28
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... aubergine 14-05-2021 15:20
 RE: Anyone at all paying attention to... wtf_dragon 24-05-2021 18:20
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Message: | composed: 25-04-2022 07:26 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
-Direhaggis- -Direhaggis- is a male

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...The 2008 presidential election contenders for the United States?

It's a given nowadays that there are perpetual news stories about upcoming elections--I think this one especially given how divisive the current administration has been for segments of the states.

Actually that brings to mind a question for those outside of the U.S. : how close to an election does the country have to get for continual coverage of the candidates to occur? Is it usually after they've decided to run? Months before they officially decide but are looking as if they might?


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Message: | composed: 26-04-2022 16:28 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
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quote:
Originally posted by -Direhaggis-
...The 2008 presidential election contenders for the United States?

It's a given nowadays that there are perpetual news stories about upcoming elections--I think this one especially given how divisive the current administration has been for segments of the states.

Actually that brings to mind a question for those outside of the U.S. : how close to an election does the country have to get for continual coverage of the candidates to occur? Is it usually after they've decided to run? Months before they officially decide but are looking as if they might?


I think it depends on a number of factors, actually. Some candidates seem to get a lot of coverage, from the moment there is even a hint of speculation that they might be considering an electoral run (i.e. Hillary Clinton, Fred Thompson, Barack Obama...). Other candidates merit hardly any coverage even after they have spend months campaigning (Mitt Romney).

I'm following it with mild interest, and have my opinions not about which candidate would be good in the office -- because currently, I am unimpressed with pretty much the entire slate of individuals, Republican or Democrat -- although I have a short list of people I'd prefer NOT to win.

But then, there's only so much I can legitimately say about such things, because I am not a citizen of the U.S., and I do not live there. As such, I will not be voting for the next president.

Wink WtFD


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Message: | composed: 28-04-2022 21:11 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
aubergine

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I doubt that Bush will win a third term, so if the Republicans shave a monkey and glue a crucifix to it, they will stand their best chance of winning.

What's interesting is that the Democrat's may wind up using the most winnable election ever to do the traditionally impossible: have a black or female president. I'd sooner see a black female president, if it were Beyonce and not Oprah. I think I'd rather see Obama win the toss than Clinton though. Mainly for varieties sake but also because she seems to be more ambition than human.


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Thread Starter Thread Started by -Direhaggis-

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Thankfully, American presidents are only allowed to serve a maximum of two 4 year terms. So Bush can never run again as president. Not that he would have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, but still.

I've found it continually bizarre how moderate to liberal all the candidates are, Democrat and Republican, when it comes to social issues they have or (up until recently) had. There's usually an overwhelming push to have some far right conservative be the Republican frontrunner in recent years. I suppose that Bush has twisted around what "conservative" means and a lot of American voters seem turned off to candidates that are intelletually or politically like him.

(Yes, I said intellectually. Don't laugh too hard)


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quote:
Originally posted by -Direhaggis-
Thankfully, American presidents are only allowed to serve a maximum of two 4 year terms. So Bush can never run again as president. Not that he would have a snowball's chance in hell of winning, but still.


Technically, a president could wind up serving almost 12 years in office, provided that he ascended to office from the Vice Presidency shortly after another President a) was elected and b) died. But that's a technicality.

quote:
I've found it continually bizarre how moderate to liberal all the candidates are, Democrat and Republican, when it comes to social issues they have or (up until recently) had. There's usually an overwhelming push to have some far right conservative be the Republican frontrunner in recent years. I suppose that Bush has twisted around what "conservative" means and a lot of American voters seem turned off to candidates that are intelletually or politically like him.


There are two major theories of political dynamics, I guess you might be able to call it, that seem to predominate in Western elections (especially in North America, but in other places as well to a certain degree). Essentially, they are mirror images of each other, but I'll approach it from the conservative angle because a) I am one and b) it works as well as the opposite approach.

A conservative candidate, when forming his/her campaign, has essentially two options when dealing with responses to the policies of his/her liberal opponent. S/he can either a) present a more conservative policy, and attempt to draw his/her opponent's policy further rightware, or b) allow his/her policy to be drawn further leftward by said opponent's own policy stance.

Historically, conservatives have done well when they opt for choice ( a ), and one can cite various examples, including Dame Maggie and Ronald Reagan, Bush to a lesser degree, and Canada's Stephen Harper to an even lesser degree than that.

(I just realized that's a loaded list of names, but I trust that everyone here is mature enough not to flame or make casual and inaccurate generalizations)

And while it's true that the slate of candidates on both sides of the current American presidential race tend towards the moderate view in general, on specific issues that doesn't hold up. Hillary Clinton is a decent example of trend ( b ) from above -- despite running on the Democrat ticket, she's been (at best) ambivalent on the issue of the Iraq War. Mitt Romney is also a decent example of ( b ) -- despite running on the Republican ticket, he has come down strongly against missile defense.

To be fair, though, there are some candidates that more classically fit the mold one would expect from their choice of party; Barack Obama doesn't have anything particularly right-wing in his campaign, and by most accounts is running on the usual pantheon of left-wing issues (nothing wrong with that). Conversely, Fred Thompson hasn't -- I don't think -- thrown his name in the hat for the presidency just yet, but if he does he can be expected to run a fairly solidly right-wing platform (again, nothing wrong with that). From the amount he's been in the news lately, I'd expect Thompson to be announcing his candidacy fairly soon, but for now it's a waiting game.

I am a little disappointed with the general atmosphere of moderation on display in most of the candidates, though, because really it comes down to a choice between a right-of-left-of-right-of-left set of platforms and a left-of-right-of-left-of-right set of platforms...and is that really a healthy, thriving political debate? Doesn't seem like it to me.

I've never understood the modern disdain for right-wing politicians who garner popular support from time to time; I'd rather see a well-defined left/right battle at the poll than a battle between two candidates of, say, left and lefter persuasion. I'd rather see a election that pits for example, the "we should pull out of Afghanistan" viewpoint against the "we should stay the course" viewpoint rather than an election that pits the "we should pull out of Afghanistan in 12 months time" viewpoint against the "same but 18 months" viewpoint.

quote:
(Yes, I said intellectually. Don't laugh too hard)


I didn't laugh at all, except slightly at the flippancy of this remark.

Wink WttFD


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Message: | composed: 30-04-2022 18:13 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Fred-A.

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In 1971, I was on holiday in Canada, and was approached by a young lady enquiring who I intended to support in the forthcoming general election. I immediately informed her that I intended to support Mr Edward Heath. Of course my "english" accent immediately gave the game away and she lost further interest. Thus I state here that I am sure that George W will be replaced by a worthy person duly selected by you Americans in due course. I am more interested in who replaces Tony Blair/Gordon Brown!

Fred.
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Thread Starter Thread Started by -Direhaggis-

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Well I meant no offense. As I understand it, sentiment toward the standing American president reaches down somewhere to mole people status in most of the industrialized world. So I was mostly being serious in asking people not to laugh, considering.


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quote:
Originally posted by -Direhaggis-
Well I meant no offense. As I understand it, sentiment toward the standing American president reaches down somewhere to mole people status in most of the industrialized world. So I was mostly being serious in asking people not to laugh, considering.


His current approval rate seems to be hovering between 30% and 35%, which is not great, but it hardly abysmal either.

For the record, I don't particularly count myself satisfied with the guy (to the extent that my saying so means anything; I'm not a citizen of the U.S.). Stacking Bush against the slate of candidates currently tossing their names in for the presidency, though, I'm not sure I could point to someone I would prefer be in the Oval Office.

Again, for all the $0.02 that my saying so is worth.

Wink WtFD


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aubergine

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No offense? Calling Bush a retard is offensive to retarded people. I don't think America has had a worse President at a more crucial time in history. It's interesting that you talk about pulling out/staying the course in Afghanistan instead of Iraq (wtf indeed) but what seems to be the current trend in "conservative" seems to be using a bit of bullshit to send people to their own pointless deaths. Through the Iraq war, Bush has succeeded in killing more Americans than 9/11.

The only smart thing I've ever heard him say was his recent speech regarding why he vetoed the bill for a phased withdrawal. The question is not about pulling out or staying the course, it's still and forever will be about going in in the first place. There is no solution to what they have done. Either a whole lot more people will die, or a whole lot more people will die. It's nice that they killed Saddam, just a shame that they had to destablise an entire region, bring about a civil war, reveal the character of America's political leaders, stain the reputation of their armed forces though the absolute shambles of Abu Grahib and ensure a fresh and unquenchable spring of people excited about fighting the US to the death.

That anyone can examine the US's policy in recent years and label it something as polite as "conservative" beggars reason. Their policy has been radical - radically stupid.


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quote:
Originally posted by aubergine
No offense? Calling Bush a retard is offensive to retarded people.


This must be what they call 'rational discourse'.

quote:
I don't think America has had a worse President at a more crucial time in history.


Bill Clinton.

quote:
It's interesting that you talk about pulling out/staying the course in Afghanistan instead of Iraq (wtf indeed) but what seems to be the current trend in "conservative" seems to be using a bit of bullshit to send people to their own pointless deaths. Through the Iraq war, Bush has succeeded in killing more Americans than 9/11.


It's a war...what did you expect?

I don't concern myself with Iraq as much as I do with Afghanistan because I'm not an American, and we Canucks don't have any real military commitment in Iraq at present. We do in Afghanistan, though. So forgive me if I don't really comment on Iraq, but in plain point of fact it doesn't concern me nearly as directly as Afghanistan does.

Although while we're on the subject of Iraq, it should be noted that although there have been casualties, those casualties have been exceptionally low. Compared to any other conflict of similar duration and intensity, the losses that the Americans have sustained in Iraq have been negligible.

And also, please use actual arguments instead of specious ones: yes, more Americans have died in Iraq than in 9/11...but there's a difference. The people who died in Iraq volunteered to serve their country (America doesn't have a draft anymore, remember?), and died in the line of duty. The people murdered on 9/11 didn't volunteer to be in the path of an oncoming airliner.

quote:
The only smart thing I've ever heard him say was his recent speech regarding why he vetoed the bill for a phased withdrawal. The question is not about pulling out or staying the course, it's still and forever will be about going in in the first place. There is no solution to what they have done. Either a whole lot more people will die, or a whole lot more people will die. It's nice that they killed Saddam, just a shame that they had to destablise an entire region, bring about a civil war, reveal the character of America's political leaders, stain the reputation of their armed forces though the absolute shambles of Abu Grahib and ensure a fresh and unquenchable spring of people excited about fighting the US to the death.


Two questions:

1) What will happen if the U.S. forces withdraw from Iraq prior to stability being restored in the region?
2) Are you okay with that?

The U.S. military is exceptionally good at waging an offensive war, and nobody can stand up to them on a modern battlefield. Unfortunately, the U.S. military is not particularly well-suited to policing operations, which they are now embroiled in.

Still, they seem to be getting things done. Do you read many embedded journalists? You ought to...folks like Michael Yon, for example. Despite what the mainstream media tends to portray the conflict as, progress is being made in Iraq, and the insurgents are losing men and losing ground. The Iraqi government is getting stronger, its military growing more capable. They're not at the stage yet where the U.S. could withdraw and not plunge the country back into chaos...but that day is getting closer.

Yes, some American soldiers did some terrible things...and most of them have now been punished for it, because neither the American military nor the American government sanctioned the brutality and humiliation that were inflicted on the prisoners and people that were victimized. Every army has members that will do horrible things; that's an unavoidable fact of life, as sure as it is in civilian society. But the character of the army is not defined by the aberrant actions of a few unhinged members of it.

quote:
That anyone can examine the US's policy in recent years and label it something as polite as "conservative" beggars reason. Their policy has been radical - radically stupid.


I didn't agree with the invasion of Iraq, admittedly...as a Catholic, and from within the framework of Catholic teaching, there was no way I could support it. Equally, though, within that same framework, there is now no way I can support a premature withdrawal from Iraq. The U.S. broke it, and they're morally obligated to fix it before they just pull out.

Seriously consider and answer the two questions I posited above, because they are key. If the U.S. withdraws from Iraq too prematurely, that nation will degenerate into civil war. And if you thought the bodycount was bad now, it would be even worse if that were to happen.

Wink WtFD


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