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Titans of Ether » TITANS OF ETHER » Ultima IX: Redemption » So, what weird Ultima loose-end do you want tied? » Hello Guest [Login|Register]
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Message: | composed: 16-06-2021 01:51 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Thanatloc Thanatloc is a male

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quote:
Originally posted by Kultan

I thought he was bound to Malchir



Well that is what it seems, you're right. In the particular case of a Thaumaturgist's consipiracy, my guess was just a possibility of what could be...

As for the power of Arcadion, at any past and present times, I think it does not prevent him to be like a puppet when enslaved by a powerfull summoner (or is it another evil deceit?)

It is not Pyros after all...

This post has been edited 2 time(s), it was last edited by Thanatloc: 16-06-2021 01:58.

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Message: | composed: 26-06-2021 12:39 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Van Hailm Van Hailm is a male



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I jump in the discussion about the "Old races" of Sosaria

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Elves Present in U1, U2, U3.
There was also specualtion of fairies found in Ambrosia were elves that devolved/mutated.

In recent UO expansion (Mondain's Legacy) the Elves have come back to the forefront of Britannia history and their backstory has been updated with new informations. According to UO fiction the Elves, or Cu’Sidhe, were the caretaker of the land and their own essence was tied to the land. Before the Shattering of the Gem they were immortal but the events of U1 ended their golden age. The race was decimated and the elven people were now mortals. Their home, the Tree of Life, being not located in Sosaria but "outside" (the void ?) survivors located in Britannia were actually trapped unable to return there. In time their blood diluted in human lineage and they passed into myth...

Another version of the Elven folk exist, the one developped for the abandonned UX: O. In this version the elves themselves moved away from the world, trying through meditation to find how to defeat Mondain and his apprentice. When they emerge they are horrifed to see that the world was ripped appart (end of U3) and leave Sosaria in self-exile.

Dwarves Present in U1, U2, U3.
Little is know of the Mountainfolk. The only reference we have outside the cardinal Ultima's is in UW1. After the fall of the colony nothing is know of the fate of the Mountain Folk in Britannia.
quote:
Mountain-Folk
Our Colony in the Abyss is a place for new beginnings. This has certainly been true for the Mountain-Folk of Britannia. Short of stature and broad of shoulder, the Mountain-Folk - known in times past as "Dwarves," though they detest this name - have a unique lifestyle dedicated to traditional craftsmanship. Over the ages, however, their distrust of outsiders and their well-known love for precious metals have put them in disrepute. In the past century, many of the Folk abandoned their old ways, left their homes, and married outside their clan. I was surprised when the Chief of the Mountain-Folk wrote to me con- cerning the desire of his people to join the Abyssal Colony. Knowing that the Folk were in danger of dying out as a culture, I suggested that the Chief might not want his people to be part of our town - where, after all, our goal is to prove that all people can live in unity. However, Chief Goldsword was stubborn, and correct about his people being useful in hewing out living quarters from the rocks of the chasm. (Indeed, some histories claim that the Mountain-Folk built the original passageways of the Abyss, in the days when the Isle of the Avatar first rose from the ocean.) The Mountain-Folk have proved to be excellent fellow-citizens, and they are on friendly terms with our Knights and Seers. They even abide the presence of their traditional foes, the Trolls.

Bobbits Present in U1, U2, U3.
The bobbits were all killed due to some wasting disease, a curse put on them by Mondain it seems.
quote:
Hammerfist
Description: A mace hewn from a molten blob by the Bobbit hero Bonchu. Bonchu was thought to have been the first Bobbit to single handedly strike down an Ettin. Alas, he was not strong enough to save his race from the hideous plague that the fiend Mondain released upon them before the end. This item's current location is unknown.
Reference: Sage Humbolt Gives Magic Weapons to Questors


Fuzzies Present in U3.
The Fuzzies of Exodus are very similar, at least in looks, to the Emps of BG so maybe there is some clue here. Their ties to the land is interresting when thinking that the state of LB in a version U9 was due to a similar "curse"... Maybe a leftover of Exodus.


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Message: | composed: 26-06-2021 17:22 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
-Direhaggis- -Direhaggis- is a male

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Thread Starter Thread Started by -Direhaggis-

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My own tendency would be to not borrow from anything past Ultima 8, basically encompassing Ascension and the online game. Frankly, the MMORPG is geared toward maximizing market share and makes decisions accordingly. There is nothing wrong with wanting to sell as many units of your Ultima product as possible; EA is a business.

What I do object to are things like bringing in ninjas and samurai from some heretofore unknown land/world, or other material that is tangential from Ultima's original Medieval and Renaissance Europe setting. Medieval Asian warriors and assassins don't really have a place in it--or their place in it is not explained to my satisfaction by Ultima Online.

It certainly is useful to take account of how these races were later explained by the company, though. I appreciate your including the information.


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Message: | composed: 26-06-2021 20:11 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Van Hailm Van Hailm is a male



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I completly agree that Samurai Empire was a bit of a strangeness in UO history. Their justification (and the one about the elves too) for their presence is very thin. What I do but like is the idea of expanding Sosaria beyond the "gateway" method (ala Malas or Lost Lands or Illshenar), still the actual engine limitations make the whole point moot.

However some concept added in UO are not always out of sync with Ultima Lore. For example the Necromancer spells are using Words of Power which were almost all derived from Gargish language. Reagents are for the exception of Nox Crystalls found in U8 so I found this move believable. Paladin are more discutable but they could be linked to U3-kind of magic rather than the one set from U5 and onward.

BTW with gargish being the root for spelcasting how does it come that gargoyles are not a more magically aware folk ?

The reason gargoyles are more accepted as race in Ultima than were the old races is imho that they were interstingly fleshed out in U6. Still the game from U4 and later is very humano-centric. Other races are often encountered as opponents or NPCs. Even the gargoyle do not join you in your quest in BG or SI. This is quite a departure from "classic" fantasy CRPG were many races are available to create your team.

What's interesting is that in recent year EA tries to add variety to the UO gameply by adding new "classes" (Paladin, Necromancer, Samurai, Ninja) and races (Elves, Gargoyles soon) and tries to integrate them in Ultima Lore with mitigated success.

While I'm not for having any of the old race folks running around in a post U8 game I find it strange to say "boooo" to elves and dwarves and bobbits and say "okay that's fine" to Goblins, Trolls and Orcs. They share the same root and early Ultima games were non-descri^pt anough to rewrite tham as we see fit. why not keep some reference in lore tomes, or as the history of an artifact tying them to the "lost races", maybe having some insult or praise based on their myth (i.e. bobbit appetite). Even some monsters could have a tie to them (dryad remembering their cartakers, troll having some mountainfolk treasure, etc...). not having them around does not mean erasing them out of Sosaria history.


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Message: | composed: 27-06-2021 08:14 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
-Direhaggis- -Direhaggis- is a male

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Thread Starter Thread Started by -Direhaggis-

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You seem to have far more knowledge than I do as far as UO lore being a good fit to previous Ultima lore. Specifically with regard to different kinds of magic used by different spellcasters. I've never played UO, myself.

To be fully honest, I've poured over transcripts and the belief systems of all of the Ultimas for years now--yet I never really focused on the runic or gargish aspects of spellcasting.

I'm fully aware of how important that aspect of gameplay is to dragons, ultima enthusiasts, etc. For me, however, getting the setting, characters, and backstory 'right' was first and foremost--and has been an extremely daunting task since taking up the main plot (with Corv's help and suggestions from the team). It does make sense that U8 reagents would be used for Necromancy. Gargish words being the conduit to the Ether is a curveball. My notes are elsewhere, but the gargoyle principles of manipulating the Ether and controlling their society seem more order focused than LB's system (Diligence, e.g.). Certainly one requires a controlling order-oriented means of using the Ether to bind a spirit and make it do stuff freely or against its will.

I haven't researched Gargish magic itself much, but I seem to recall every winged gargoyle could cast lightning bolt. (At least it seemed that way). Unlike humans, who intrinsically have to learn how to manipulate the Ether as mages, Gargoyles could have an instinctive grasp of it and be much less inclined to use it/learn how to use it. In D&D terms, perhaps Gargoyles are like Sorcerers. I hadn't thought about any of this, but I'm extremely glad you brought it up!

# # # #

That said, I admit some of the explanations that U0 developers may come up with could indeed be in line with the canon and make a good amount of sense. My instinctive reaction would be to think of alternative explanations where possible and applicable, if anything to be very conservative in avoiding copyright issues with current products as opposed to, er, "abandonware."

For me, the same something happened to all the original races in U1-U3. It's not in contradiction with the UO lore, but it isn't based on it either. I really can't say anything more on that point. I sincerely wish I could.

Having Goblins around makes sense. They've been everywhere in the Ultimas up to the 'present' one. Same for Lizardfolk. Orcs, if I remember right, haven't been around since U3 or U4. I seem to recall a sentient Troll from U7:BG who could listen to the Guardian...but I can't remember if there are troll monsters! I unfortunately have no records of bestiaries, so i can only go off of blogging or fan sites.

Regardless, if it was a playable or sentient race, trust me, there will be mention of it in U9R. The sheer amount of optional dialogue for those that look for it is immense.

On the order of novels worth of material. Which is optional. Because some people like to read a book, some like to eat a book. I try to offer reading or eating that very book.

Damn what a long post, sorry.


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Message: | composed: 27-06-2021 16:15 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Van Hailm Van Hailm is a male



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First to clarify my point: I'm not an advocate of including minor or tangential elements in Redemption. My reaction to this thread was simply to stress that while early Ultima/Sosaria lore was often disregared due to it's incoherences with later sources (U4 and onwards), it was not always necessary.

I'm impressed by what the Ultima community as whole has achieved and can't wait for the release of Redemption. One of the main reason I did dig up UO lore is because one of my pet project is to create a pen and paper RPG set in the Ultimaverse. To achieve this goal I started to check everything that has been written about the 'verse so I began to pillage UO lore, UW1 Lore, aborted projetcs like UWO: Origin, novels (Technocrat War series, Forge of Virtue, Temper of Wisdom) and UX: Odyssey and of course fan made products like Lazarus, U1: A Legend is Reborn and Redemption.

Since most sources conflict with others, and even Cardinal Ultima books have continuity problems, I applaud the work you have done until now to tie all loose ends in a meaningfull context.

===============================================================

Now back on topic of loose ends to tie, I'd like to see two points learn more about gypsies and their link to the Virtues. After all it's them that set you on the path of the Avatar with the Virtue test...


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Message: | composed: 28-06-2021 21:44 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
sorcerdon sorcerdon is a male

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Ok here is anothe Mind Boggler:

In Ultima VIII pagan:

In east tennbrea:
There is a small house with a guardsman that attacks you. There are some items in the house, but I didn't see anything of importance.
Who is the guard? Why is he attacking you? Whats the story here?

In Mythrans house:
Shaana was in Mythran's house.
Why? Did she study magic? Is she also a captive of guardian? Why is she talking to Mythran - maybe she was the previous Titan of Ether?
Whats the story here?

This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by sorcerdon: 28-06-2021 21:48.

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Message: | composed: 02-10-2021 18:28 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Kultan

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In past Ultimas only the super long-lived NPC's made it from one Ultima to another (those from earth, powerful mages, etc.) because of the amount of time that took place in between. Serpent Isle was an exception to the 'time' reason, but, of course, it took place in a whole new setting.

Redemption takes place around 19 years after the Avatar arrived in Britannia at the beginning of The Black Gate (and about 17 years before he left for the Serpent Isle). This leaves the door open for several recurring, albeit older, Black Gate NPC's.

So, are there any characters from The Black Gate who were memorable to you and whom you would like to see again in Redemption? I'm not really speaking of major characters from several past Ultimas who are pretty much guaranteed. I'm speaking more of minor NPC's who happened to strike a chord in you for one reason or another. If there are, who are they and what aspect of them made an impression on you?
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Message: | composed: 02-10-2021 19:39 Go to the top of this page Zum Ende der Seite springen
Sunigator Sunigator is a male



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I totally liked the crazy Sultan living in Spektran (Martingo, I think). He lived in that big palace completely alone, but he imagined of living with many slave-wives. Big Grin
I remember that during his dialogue with the Avatar, he often stopped talking for kissing or giving orders to his wives, leaving his guests astonished (the dialogue for this NPC was so well written that I laughed a lot, even if on the screen you can only see the Sultan sitting).

I also liked the fairy in Ambrosia, for the same reason, it was a little funny and entertaining scene. I remember a line like this: "She smacks on your cheek the ooziest kiss you ever felt", or something similar, and all the companions was disgusted at this sight!
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