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| User Profil |
Message:
 | composed: 20-10-2021 03:19 |
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Jacar 
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima Underworld 2 |
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Hello Guys and Gals,
As you have apparently seen, we've gone into one of our silent spells in terms of updating the community with news about our project. The truth of the matter is that for a while now we've been having a discussion amongst ourselves about what to tell the community. After this chat, we have come to the conclusion that it is fairest to you and to ourselves to tell you more about what's been up with us as of late. We appreciate and admire how much you've stuck by us over the years, and you are a large part of why Redemption has come as far as it did. I'm going to sum up some parts briefly, but the following is the end result of our discussion:
As you may know, we had "recently" decided to scrap our previous party system in favor of a new system (post here). We also decided to plod along without waiting for the gang at OpenMW (led by our very own Zini) to finish up their work. Tragically, due to technical issues, we have found that this is tedious at best, and impossible at worst. For those that have used the CS, I'm sure you have some idea what we're talking about. For those that have not, let me sum it up in two words: it sucks. Frequent crashes and tedium of use were initially to be addressed by OpenMW (or so we thought).
But as you may also recall from our earlier posts, further delays in production on an already unstable team would not be ideal for our longterm health or for getting the best possible product out there. The team has been working for years and has overcome a large amount of hiccups, many of which may have canned professional projects. But to drag your feet and halfheartedly finish something is also not what gets a product out there. And it would not be something we were proud of, therefore not an option.
With all this in mind, we have sadly decided that Redemption is as of this writing on hold.
This means that we are halting production. This however, does NOT mean that this is the end of us. We have every intention of staying together as a team and getting a finished project out there. We are also considering a number of future options, including a possible switch to the Unity Engine, which would mean our resultant project could be something a tad different...
As always, thank you so much for sticking by us all these years. It means more to all of us and to me personally than you know. We hope to have more updates in the coming weeks.
Best Wishes,
Jacar
Enjoy the great taste of wassail, in cans!
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 21-10-2021 00:00 |
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aragorn256
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 4 Quest of the Avatar |
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Alas, thus ends the final hope I had for a proper conclusion to the venerated saga. While you do say "on hold", I cannot really remember any serious and involved fan project ever to have be resurrected. Thank you for the attempt, and I wish you good luck in any future projects. I shall be dropping here from time to time, but I won't be clinging to hope. And if I am proven wrong, then it will be the happiest day to jump in here and admit my mistake.
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 21-10-2021 20:19 |
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bluesbassa
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 7 Serpent Isle |
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Some projects were resurrected in the past, one of those resurrection leaded to the beautiful Ultima 6 Project for example. So, for now, the things seems to be impossible to fix, maybe someone can revive the status in the next months or years, never say never 
Thank you guys for all your efforts so far, the dream of a proper conclusion for the Ultima Saga won't end here, maybe you'll be able to find time and tech-solutions to the issues in the next months, maybe years.. in any case you can be sure that someone will still be looking at this forum for a while! 
good luck titans
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 22-10-2021 06:16 |
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Thank you. I myself am a hopeless optimist, so I'll always believe there's a way back even after it's all over. The team has gone through many obstacles in the past, in fact, I was a member of the original team on U9R before we merged with the Titans team. The project had appeared to be dead back then, but that was many years ago and much progress has been made since then.
Whatever happens, I'm confident that the team, in one configuration or another, will succeed in whatever we ultimately decide to do, whether that's a reboot of Redemption, or something new altogether.
I've personally started out with this project since August of 2003. That's now over 10 years, and who would've thought it would've survived this long with all the other Ultima fan projects failing. So there will always be hope.
Ralph Dragon
Dialogue Writer/Editor
Titans of Ether
~~{UDIC}~~
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 22-10-2021 18:29 |
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Fred-A.
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| Location: The real Brittania |
| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 2 Revenge of the Enchantress |
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Well, with all the delays and periods of quiet, I suppose that it has occurred to many of us that what has now happened was on the cards - we just did not want to say so because we all wanted to give the Titans maximum encouragement and support.
When the project started, the decision was made to use a particular game engine. After a few years it was discovered that there were drawbacks in using this engine and it presented programming difficulties which could not be overcome. The decision was therefore made to change over to the current game engine despite the large amount of re-coding that this would require. It was stated at the time that there was no chance of changing game engines again and that this was it! Now we learn that the current engine has unexpected shortcomings which cannot be overcome. If the game engine is changed again for a yet more modern one might it be third time lucky?
This has been an awesome project and all credit must be due to Corv an the team for their tenacity and determination over the last 10 years or so. After all the work that has been done it would be such a pity now if it could not be continued to completion, however I can see many further obstacles to be oivercome ahead even if the game engine was changed, the material re-coded and this was no longer a critical stumbling block.
If the decision to change game engines is taken again, may I put in a plea to return to the control system pioneered and (IMHO) brought to perfection by Garriott where the two button mouse does most of the work. Although I have played a few Morrowing games now, as an avid Ultima buff, I am used to and prefer Garriott's system. (OK I know I don't need it when playing U][) - it is part of the Ultima experience!
Like the others, I will continue to look in on this site now and then in the hope that some developments are starting again, but I can fully understand the disappointment of Corv and the others with the decision that has had to be reached after all their hard work over the last decade.
Fred.
Try XYZZY - it might work!
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 26-10-2021 13:31 |
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Conker
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 7 Serpent Isle |
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Will always be waiting patiently. I check on this project regularly and that isn't about to change. My only disappointment is that I cannot contribute myself.
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PROFILE ::
EMAIL ::
SEARCH ::
BUDDY
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QUOTE :: EDIT :: REPORT |
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 29-10-2021 01:20 |
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Kindbud
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| Favourite Ultima: Ultima 5 Warriors of Destiny |
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That's a real shame about the production hold. Are there potentially notable advantages of OpenMW engine over Unity? Could a party system be cobbled together in Unity? Would the story suffer or the conversations or any NPC schedules suffer if Unity is used? Could you knock out the whole game envisioned in a few years in Unity rather than wait on the impediments in OpenMW to be cleared?
I'll keep checking in on UIX: R because I know it will be a great addition to my Ultima games.
Thank you for all your hard work and I wish you the best and am hopeful the Titan team will pull off something great!
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 29-10-2021 04:43 |
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@Conker: Don't underestimate the power that positive encouragement has to contribute. ;-)
@Kindbud : I, personally, have never used OpenMW, but I heard it's still being developed. So, even if we were to switch to it, we would still have to wait until it's been completed. I personally have Unity, but if we switch to it, it would mean a start from square one, and it isn't the most encouraging thing to restart from scratch on the same thing you've been doing for many years. Hence, our current predicament.
Ralph Dragon
Dialogue Writer/Editor
Titans of Ether
~~{UDIC}~~
This post has been edited 1 time(s), it was last edited by Ralph Dragon: 29-10-2021 04:44.
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 31-10-2021 16:48 |
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In the unfortunate event that this project ends up getting cancelled, would the material produced be made available to the community?
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 31-10-2021 22:45 |
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Jacar
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima Underworld 2 |
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Thread Starter 
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A sincere thanks for all the words of support! To address some of the more recent questions I've seen (apologies if I missed anything important, but I reckon I can cover the gist of them):
| quote: |
Originally posted by Kindbud
That's a real shame about the production hold. Are there potentially notable advantages of OpenMW engine over Unity? Could a party system be cobbled together in Unity? Would the story suffer or the conversations or any NPC schedules suffer if Unity is used? Could you knock out the whole game envisioned in a few years in Unity rather than wait on the impediments in OpenMW to be cleared?
I'll keep checking in on UIX: R because I know it will be a great addition to my Ultima games.
Thank you for all your hard work and I wish you the best and am hopeful the Titan team will pull off something great! |
Regardless of what engine we choose to use, we will make every attempt to fulfill the core goals we aimed to achieve upon starting out. We are all Ultima fans, and that spirit will not be lost in our project. Thanks for your continuing interest and support!
| quote: |
Originally posted by Praecor_Loth
In the unfortunate event that this project ends up getting cancelled, would the material produced be made available to the community? |
It would depend on what you mean by material. We might hint to where the plot would have gone or show off some material here and there that we don't intend to use later on (since I want to reiterate that we are not disbanding as a team. Releasing any of our current builds is not something we are presently considering for a number of reasons. So in short, this is not an absolute no, but we cannot comment further right now.
Enjoy the great taste of wassail, in cans!
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 09-11-2021 17:27 |
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JAvatar80
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 6 The False Prophet |
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This does sadden me, but I remain optimistic! The amount of love and dedication this community has for the project and team, as well as the team's own love and dedication...leads to love and dedication everywhere and by the power of the moon, I shall punish you!
Ok, enough campy dialogue. Seriously though, I'm sure that all of us will continue to watch and hope some breakthrough occurs, and this project gets back on it's feet. And a heartfelt thank you to the team for sticking with it this long! Please do keep us updated when things turn around.
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 10-11-2021 17:13 |
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Ah, I'm sorry to read of this.
For what it's worth, as disheartening as starting over with Unity might be, I do think that it might be a good idea if you plan to go on with the project at some stage. It really did seem that you were fighting the engine when working with Morrowind; I don't know to what degree that might be alleviated by OpenMorrowind, but -- aside from whatever functionality Morrowind/OpenMorrowind provides for you -- I suspect that you'd find working with Unity rather smoother than attempting to force Morrowind to do what you want.
For example, looking at Kindbud's post, the timeline aside (I don't care to speculate on how long such a game might take) none of the features that he lists seem at all infeasible with Unity -- albeit in part because you'd probably end up implementing at least some of them yourselves.
Whatever you (As a team) go on to next, good luck with it! ^_^
MWAHAHAHAHA!!!
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 27-01-2022 21:23 |
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Corv
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| Location: Tirol / Austria |
| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 7 Black Gate |
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One day you will see a finished Redemption.
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 29-01-2022 06:04 |
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Amen
Ralph Dragon
Dialogue Writer/Editor
Titans of Ether
~~{UDIC}~~
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| User Profil |
| Message:
| composed: 29-01-2022 09:27 |
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Corv
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| Location: Tirol / Austria |
| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 7 Black Gate |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by aragorn256
Alas, thus ends the final hope I had for a proper conclusion to the venerated saga. While you do say "on hold", I cannot really remember any serious and involved fan project ever to have be resurrected. Thank you for the attempt, and I wish you good luck in any future projects. I shall be dropping here from time to time, but I won't be clinging to hope. And if I am proven wrong, then it will be the happiest day to jump in here and admit my mistake. |
I think you got a wrong impression from the post. I can't tell you WHEN production will be in full swing again but I CAN promise you that Redemption is far from being cancelled.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Conker
Will always be waiting patiently. I check on this project regularly and that isn't about to change. My only disappointment is that I cannot contribute myself. |
As Ralph already said, your interest, your posts and your encouragement is worth more than you think. It's the fuel needed to go on.
| quote: |
Originally posted by JAvatar80
This does sadden me, but I remain optimistic! The amount of love and dedication this community has for the project and team, as well as the team's own love and dedication...leads to love and dedication everywhere and by the power of the moon, I shall punish you!
Ok, enough campy dialogue. Seriously though, I'm sure that all of us will continue to watch and hope some breakthrough occurs, and this project gets back on it's feet. And a heartfelt thank you to the team for sticking with it this long! Please do keep us updated when things turn around.
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Thank YOU for this post! Let us recollect ourselves and it will go on, no worries. As a matter of fact this break might be good. I can review some things in peace and we might be able to go on even stronger and with more focus.
| quote: |
Originally posted by Praecor_Loth
In the unfortunate event that this project ends up getting cancelled, would the material produced be made available to the community? |
Sorry won't happen, the being cancelled I mean. You will have all the material when we release it. IF we change engine I might let the community have the Morrowind resources which we would not be able to use anymore. But the change is only a very vague possibility (see below).
| quote: |
Originally posted by Kindbud
That's a real shame about the production hold. Are there potentially notable advantages of OpenMW engine over Unity? Could a party system be cobbled together in Unity? Would the story suffer or the conversations or any NPC schedules suffer if Unity is used? Could you knock out the whole game envisioned in a few years in Unity rather than wait on the impediments in OpenMW to be cleared?
I'll keep checking in on UIX: R because I know it will be a great addition to my Ultima games.
Thank you for all your hard work and I wish you the best and am hopeful the Titan team will pull off something great! |
| quote: |
Originally posted by Thaumaturge
Ah, I'm sorry to read of this.
For what it's worth, as disheartening as starting over with Unity might be, I do think that it might be a good idea if you plan to go on with the project at some stage. It really did seem that you were fighting the engine when working with Morrowind; I don't know to what degree that might be alleviated by OpenMorrowind, but -- aside from whatever functionality Morrowind/OpenMorrowind provides for you -- I suspect that you'd find working with Unity rather smoother than attempting to force Morrowind to do what you want.
For example, looking at Kindbud's post, the timeline aside (I don't care to speculate on how long such a game might take) none of the features that he lists seem at all infeasible with Unity -- albeit in part because you'd probably end up implementing at least some of them yourselves.
Whatever you (As a team) go on to next, good luck with it! ^_^ |
Thank you both! A few words to Unity or any other engine beside MW:
Right now I am not really happy with the thought of changing engines. Too much work was put into what we created so far within the MW framework. Sure some things like models could be adapted but even that is a lot of work.
I am afraid of an engine change because it could go in two ways: Spark new motivation in the team or kill it off completely (frustration).
I have very high hopes for the Divinity Original Sin editor. The game itself was created with Ultima 7 in mind (the creators are huge Ultima 7 fans). They have many features already built in other games since U7 didn't have. But I see both options Unity and Divinity more likely being used in the next project, and I can't even think of The New King before Redemption is finished. Who knows what happens till then.
One of the problems with this extremely long development process is, that things we achieved years ago which were really special back then are not so special anymore. I remember our moving 3D grass being one of the very first in compter games in general. Many of our scripted features were something you didn't see in, back then, modern games.
I am still very happy with our art style and with what we managed to squeeze out of MW, but of course games like Skyrim long surpassed everything we managed to create in terms of graphics.
But graphics aren't everything right? It's about the atmosphere you create and the only thing I think courld really improve that would be voice acting, but even that is debatable.
The engine topic is something we can think about during this "break". The other thing I can do now, like written above, is review everything we did so far. It's difficult to keep track of everything. We had so many contributors. My time off the project because of my obilgations in my paid work also made it impossible to keep it all together. This is a good thing. I am more optimistic now than I was a few months ago... no matter how silly this sounds.
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