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Message:
 | composed: 07-11-2021 21:51 |
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| quote: |
Original von Corv
Well, you will still have different weapon skills, that makes sense and is fun.
What I meant is that the player should be able to use mostly bows if he likes to do that (or swords ...) without having to think that if he doesn't use another weapon too he won't get the maximum bonus at the next level up.
That is why our system is skill based and not level based. You will get better in doing the things you do often. No need to worry that if you don't do other things you will have a disadvantage at the level up or something like that. This way you can create a very unique character. In MW most characters turned out similar becasue you were forced to *work* on skills you never use while playing the game jsut so you get attribute bonuses you wouldn't get else.
Our skill based system still includes levels, but the level number only shows how good your character is overall - it's an indication number not more.
According your experience (details follow) you will be able to pray at shrines to raise your attributes - so you don't have to do stupid things jsut to get the attributes you want.
The goal of all this is a "seamless" gaming experince. No standing in a corner in a house casting the same spell over and over just to quickly rasie a skill you suually don't use to make sure the attribute its connected to gets the highest bonus. You will not have to think about the game mechanics that way.
Yes you can train the character in a different way that you used to play it before, but only if you WANT it to and if its fun for you - not because the game mechanics force you to do so. |
I'm really looking foward to seeing how all of this works in practice. It's certainly an ambitous goal you have set.
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| Message:
| composed: 20-05-2021 07:01 |
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Shucky 
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima Underworld 2 |
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i'm not sure what is the best, i just think that morrowind's system was perhaps the worst, for reasons stated by corv. you had to play unnaturally because the levelled monsters were too strong if you didnt maximize attributes.
in U7, you levelled based on experience and then trained for attributes and/or some very basic skills (combat/magic). in the underworld seriies, you levelled based on experience and then trained skills only, with no attribute change. in UO, skills and attributes changed as you used skills, which may be the best for an mmorpg, and could work well for a solo game too but i would prefer a faster advancement rate than in an mmorpg. overall the underworld system was best if you didnt want people to be consciously thinking of what they need to be doing in order to advance the way they want, because you only had to choose the skills you want each time you levelled, and forget about it until the next time you levelled. the only major drawback to the underworld system was that you pretty much had to choose your play style at the beginning, because your ability to train different skills was determined by your attributes. as i recall, underworlds used the d&d attributes (strength, dexterity, constitution, intelligence, wisdom, charisma).
it's sad that efforts to adapt UW series to recent operating systems died out, those were among the best ultima games, in my opinion.
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| Message:
| composed: 30-05-2021 11:39 |
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Shucky
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima Underworld 2 |
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I think a skill based system can work best, but I hope that in Redemption, the skills will progress at different rates. There are some things that most players do a lot more of than others, such as running and fighiting. Even an acrobat is probably going to be doing a lot more running than jumping, so you should get a bit more advance with each jump than from an equivalent time of running.
In MW, if you somehow got the money to do it, you could buy all your skills from trainers, all the way up to max. I thought that was a wrong approach. Instead, it would make sense for you to get some instruction, but then practice for a whiile until you prove ready for the next instruction. So even if you learned form a grand master, maybe he should only be able to train you to 25, then you have to practice to 50 befoer he can trian you up to 75, and then you have to practice above 75 to reach grand mastery. But it should maybe work differntly depending on the skill. There are some things you learn more by instruction than practice, and vice versa.
The last issue, which they did apply in MW, was that advancement rates slow down as you get better. I think it should be possible to master, if not perfect, every skill in the game, but you maybe have to play at least a couple months straight in order to do it. But getting to be fairly proficient with most skills should be possible in much less time, perhaps only a couple days to get everything to average proficiency, if you have the cash to spend for the basics, followed by a little practice. Without basic instruction, maybe it should take another day or two to get to average proficiency. Beyond that, it should take maybe at least a couple days of focussed effort to master a skill, as advancement becomes progressively more difficult.
I think that for playability sake it should be just as easy to finish the game as pure master fighter, or pure master mage, or pure master archer/thief, even if it means that such unbalanced characters need to use clever ways to make up for their defieciencies, but that it is easier to get through by taking the time to master melee, ranged combat, magic and stealth.
With attributes, it would make sense for them to advance with practice, and only practice, of their related skills, just as it was done in UO. However, if the MW attributes are being used, some changes might make sense. Some activities improve more than one attribute, and to different degrees. Ideally, intelligence should refelct the sum of knowledge and successful problem solving across the whole range of skills types, while wisdom should be your average skill level (experience) combined with time spent learning from wise people, reading from tomes, and meditation. Endurance should improve from running, swimming, fighting, carrying a lot of weight, and heavy labors; strength should improve by similar activities, thought a bit less from running. Speed should improve a lot from running, to a lesser extent from combat. Agility should improve mainly from acrobatics and combat, a bit less from stealth and fine manual skills; rogues get highly agile from doing all of those a lot. Personality should improve with overall wisdom plus the total amount of interaction with others, especially in a leadership role. As for luck, I don't think it really fits in.
Overall, I think the ideal system would be something like MW, but without the levels, some changes to how attributes increase, and a few more crafts and knowledge areas (such as in D&D). MW basically took the old D&D system of attributes, changed constitution to endurance, changed dexterity to agility, and made a seperate speed attribute. A skill based system was always more realistic, but not practical before computers were fast enough to re-evaluate you after each successful action. Having said that, I wish the industry put more effort into making npcs more true to life, rather than the skill-based system and advanced graphics.
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| Message:
| composed: 30-05-2021 21:23 |
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Kultan
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima 7 Black Gate |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by Corv
I can see it being used for some "bosses" to make sure they are always a challenge for the player, but other than that I hope no one copies it and I also hope Bethesda realizes how awuful this idea was.
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From what I've read, they have realized how bad a decision it was. Some game reviews criticized it. More seemed to treat it like a normal, or even good, feature. But then actual players really bashed it.
I think there was some recent talk about it over at the Fallout 3 board.
There's nothing more fun than skipping an area/quest designed for your character at low levels, and then coming back and doing it when your 3x more powerful.
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| Message:
| composed: 31-05-2021 02:19 |
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There's little else more satisfying than being able to easily bash down a monster that used to squash you. We will not deprive U9Rer's of this precious gem of sadistic glee. Hellz no.
Direhaggis
Lead Writer/Editor
2D Art
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| Message:
| composed: 31-05-2021 02:30 |
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Shucky
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| | Favourite Ultima: Ultima Underworld 2 |
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| quote: |
Originally posted by -Direhaggis-
There's little else more satisfying than being able to easily bash down a monster that used to squash you. We will not deprive U9Rer's of this precious gem of sadistic glee. Hellz no. |
That reminds me of the hilarious "shrink monster" spell from Gothic, which you could use to shrink this king kong size gorilla down to a chimpanzee's size.
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