Diary: 2021.12.16 - SKILL SYSTEM

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This time I will describe the skills system I created based on the Morrowind system. I will also describe some differences to the Morrowind system, which of course might only be interesting for those who know Morrowind... Please read carefully Smile

Redemption Skill System:

The goal was to create a system which adds additional fun to the game and does not force the player to do certain things he does not want to, just so he can beat the game. It is a complex system and people who have fun developing their character will have every opportunity to do so, but at the same time the system does not require a player, who wants to concentrate on the story, to learn how to calculate certain level raise conditions to be sure to be able to beat the game.

There are 8 attributes and 27 skills.

Skills:

The skills are split up into:

- Arcane Skills (5 skills)
- Profession Skills (5 skills)
- General Skills (17 skills)

Most skills can be raised by using them (eg using an axe for fighting will raise your axe skill), but others can only be trained by masters of those skills. How advanced your character is, is defined by how high each skill is. There are no limits, you can raise each skill as high as you want. There are no ordinary levels, but there is a power level. This level raises with your offensive skills. Raising the power level will not give you any advantages; this power level is an indicator of how powerful you are, not more and not less. So raising eg. your cooking skill will not influence your power level, your sword skill does... To make sure everyone understands that: there is no need to strive for a high power level, it only indicates how powerful you are but it does not make you more powerful. The higher the power level is, the stronger the opponents are. So as I said, raising the skills has to be the goal of every "power player" not necessarily the power level since it doesn't give you advantages.

This will allow players to make really individual characters and not everyone will end up with the same one (same high skills, same low skills). If you want to be a good cook, or a good animal tamer, then train those skills without having to fear that you will not get bonuses you would get from other skills you may not be so interested in. If you want to be a good fighter though it's still required to learn those sword and axe etc skills. But compared to Morrowind you don't have to train certain skills you're not interested in using just to be sure you get all those bonuses at the level-up.

So our levelling system is totally skill based but at the same time does not lack of potential for people who want to get the most powerful character out there. People who do not want to get into leveling don't have to calculate bonuses, they simply can be sure that they will get better in anything they do without any (direct) negative consequences.

Attributes

While the skill system is totally independent the attributes system depends on the Virtue Points (VP). You will get VP by solving quests / doing virtuous deeds. While the game offers you also ways to be non-virtuous it rewards you for being virtuous! For all the people who are slightly frightened or tend to be negative: you can be "evil" you just will have to deal with the negative concequences, which makes it more fun again.

With a certain amount of VP you will be able to pray at shrines (lay the rune on the shrine and say the mantra). Depending on which of the 8 shrines you pray a connected Attribute will rise! Smile

You can use your VP on whatever shrine you want, so it's up to you how you develop your attributes. People who like to be strong will use them a lot for Strength, people who like to cast spells will most likely spent the points for Intelligence.

This makes sure that every player has total control over the development of his character without having to follow strange rules in the skill development.

Here a little preview of the unfinished skills window (where you also can see the new color layout of the interface) - the picture doesn't say much though since the system changes run in the background and only a little part of the changes can actually be seen this way:

Important: The different magical skills are not simply different schools like in Morrowind (Destruction,...) but actually different magic systems which work in 3 different ways, but more about that in the next diary...

So as you see, the system did not become simple compared to the Morrowind system as some people feared when I wrote that Ultima is not about levelling. The goal was to make it more fun and less work. In some terms it actually is more complex than the Morrowind system but only to make sure that people have total control over it without having to do things they don't want to do. People who want to concentrate on the story can do so without having to go into the leveling and people who want to do it all, beat every enemy, find every secret treasure, etc.. can train their Avatar in a way which is, in my opinion, much more fun than in Morrowind.

In the next diary you can read more about the different magic systems.

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Corv Dragon
-=(UDIC)=-
Leader of The Titans of Ether
Director, Writer, Scripter and Worldbuilder

I caught myself clicking on the scroll-button in your screenshot there, trying to view the other skills...

It all sounds interesting. You might want to break up that first paragraph (under 'skills') as it's a bit dense and confusing at the moment. Now that I look at it again, maybe you need a second heading 'leveling' as you really cover two subjects under that skills heading.

You seem to be saying that creatures will increase in power in direct proportion to your' power level', which would make that level basically redundant... I don't want to sound terribly critical, but, well, what would it be for?

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I deserve money, I reckon.

I rather like how you've modified the skill system. This looks very promising.
As an addition to aubergine's question, how much will the creatures' power increase in relation to the Avatar's power? I'd expect the Avatar to eventually out-pace critters. After a few power levels, I'd expect bunnies to be a push-over... well, at least the non-Monty Python variety. Wink

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UltimaDot

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Corv, it sounds like you've really hit a good balance. I do have a few questions...

First, do skills fade without use like in Morrowind? (I'm certainly hoping not).

Second, are skills attribute limited? Can I sit in a corner hitting a target for 30 hours and end up with a 400 level swordsmen skill level or will my upper limit be associated with my strength/speed/agility? Or perhaps limited to my "training"?

Finally, as Val mentioned will we outpace monsters, at least in certain areas? If mosters get harder depending on your Power Level, does that mean I'll never get to a point where travelling around the first few map areas explored by the story line will get easier? I know previous Ultimas used this as a way to add depth to the map without using artifiicial barriers (boulders in the passes). For instance having some orc camp up in the mountains near Britain. At first, the character is not strong enough to explore the area without getting killed, but later (since the monsters haven't increased in relative difficulty) the area can be explored. Also, travelling from City to city is a difficult adventure (one to be stocked up for) early in the game, but as you've done the trip more and more it should be come substaintally easier.

I like progressive enemies that are capped per region. Of course region caps can change depending on story line, but that is besides the point I'm trying to make.

Great job by the way... I think this the best system I have seen proposed in the various discussions...

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@aubergine: Power Level is not the same as Level in Morrowind. Yes in Morrowind the creatures also got stronger the higher your level was, but that is the only thing that is similar. At your level up you don't get to raise your attributes according do your skill dev like in Morrowind. This is one of the biggest faults of the else already really good MW system, because it forced players to raise certain skills to get the max bonuses and therefore most people ended up with very similar characters (unless they didn't care for the max. attribute bonuses). Also the Power level is not connected to major, minor and misc skills like in MW. So the answer is definitely NO, the power level is definitely not the same as the Level in MW.

@Val: Some creatures will be stronger than the Avatar in some stages of the game. Else the advantage of the human sitting in front of the PC doesn't play a role anymore. You will have to outsmart some enemies. But that is all a matter of balancing which naturally can only be completed when the big part of the game is done.

@playit12: Skills do not fade.
As I mentioned you can raise the skills without limits but you won't be able to sit in a corner doing the same thing over and over again to raise your skill endlessly. The part to prevent this is actually what I am working on at the moment and I don't want to say more till I know everything works there like I want it to. But it looks good so far.

In addition to the answer for Val (see above): No, monsters will of course not simply get so much stronger that the balance between your power and its power stays the same throughout the game. This way the meaning of higher skills / attributes would be cancelled out Wink

What it means is that general monsters will get just a bit (if at all) stronger to make sure that the regular fights are not completely boring. Certain monsters, expecially in side quests, which maybe guard treasures, will get stronger because they have to be a challange for the player whenever he gets there, but there the difference between their and your power will also not be the same all the time. Of course the whole getting stronger thing has a limit. At a certain point the Avatar will not have to fear anything anymore. As I said above, it's a matter of balancing and we will have to test it a lot till it's where we want it to be.

This system wasn't proposed and the general layout of it was already done when I dared to say that Ultima is not about leveling (which of course is as true now as it was back then) It just needed a bit to test it all and see if it actually works like it was planned. wouldn't make sense to tell you details about something which in the end maybe can't be done.

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Corv Dragon
-=(UDIC)=-
Leader of The Titans of Ether
Director, Writer, Scripter and Worldbuilder

I have quite a bit of confidence in this system - it sounds quite well thought out and I like the basic idea of keeping the power level and the actual level distinct from one and the other. Also the idea that some monsters are scaled to the power level at least in some way, and most of the basic monsters tend to become easier as you raise in level is a very good idea indeed. Special encounters and battles are hard and inspiring but basic feel of "power" increases due time.

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So no avatar on stero--- I mean, Silver Serpent Venom. All right!!!
p.d: now officially a 3rd year med student

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You never know what you may find at the other side of the gates...
- The Traveller -

Congrats, Traveller! A friend of mine just completed her first semester. Anatomy really took her for a spin and she's kinda worried about her GPA, but I'm guessing the 1st sem. is the most difficult. At least for grad school it was.

Re: the skills: this has a lot of promise. In MW it became extremely tedious and less fun when just about everything was easily killable. There were a couple of Mods (e.g. Giants) that did help put some genuine challenge and those always remembered near death experiences back into the game. Through this system, by contrast, it seems like a dragon or a squadron of Atarkan guards will pose some daunting challenge--until maybe near the end, perhaps.

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Direhaggis
Lead Writer/Editor

Oh good. One of the things that irritated me about Kotor 2 is that all of the enemies, not just the bosses, would match your character's level. My level 30 Jedi shouldn't have to swat at a bat-thingie 4 or 6 times to kill it. One swipe of the lightsaber, and that thing should go down. Trivial monsters should be trivial once you've reached a certain point. Tough monsters (like bosses or dragons, etc) should be a challenge. At least that's how I like it.

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UltimaDot

And here I still kinda sorta vaguely wanted to pick Kotor 2 up (even if I heard that the end sucks, basically).

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Direhaggis
Lead Writer/Editor

It is still worth picking up I think, most of the dialogue is excellent although the game itself has some weak points. Most of the NPCs have been written really well.

But one thing I'm always going to be really pissed/sad about is that they never did any kind of sequel to the Planescape: Torment. That game is the perfection regarding dialogue and feel.

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Kotor 2 isn't all bad. Looking back, I would have preferred to pick it up from the bargin bin instead of paying full price on it.

Eh... getting back on topic... nice skill system!

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UltimaDot