TITANS OF ETHER Forum Index TITANS OF ETHER
Creators of U-IX: Redemption and U-X: The New King
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

What aspects of the Morrowind game design will be changed?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TITANS OF ETHER Forum Index -> Redemption
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Far
Guest





PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:07 am    Post subject: What aspects of the Morrowind game design will be changed?

I was wondering what changes you might make to the following Morrowind default designs.

Skills - Will they be changed in any way? How will leveling up be handled?

Magic - Will there be a spell book?

Inventory interface - Can and will it be changed?

Will sitting and lying down be possible?
Back to top
Xodus
Titan of Ether
Titan of Ether


Joined: 16 Sep 2021
Posts: 122
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:50 am    Post subject:

Skills will be changed for sure. We haven't come up with a final design for how we want the skills to work, or how leveling will work.

Magic will be different as well. You can't have an Ultima without the 8 circle(9 circles in Serpent Isle :O) spellbook Smile. In addition to the spellbook, other areas of the magics will be available to the Avatar Smile.

The inventory interface at this time will remain the same. If in the future we feel a need to change it, then we may.

Sitting and lying down may or may not be a possibility. This would require new animations for every character. I'm sure we will attempt to add this in later on in the development.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Corv
Leader of Titans of Ether
Leader of Titans of Ether


Joined: 29 Jul 2021
Posts: 646
Location: Tirol, Austria

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:21 am    Post subject:

All the things you ask for are hardcoded (except sitting). So simply changing it is not possibly for anyone. We can find ways *around* it though and Mayday is trying to do some wonders by programming.

So we cant tell you final details on those points.

What we cant tell you is that we will implement sitting, but basically for NPCs. We may also implement it for the player in special places. Of course you will be able to sit for example on a horse of course. No laying planned.

The magic system also changes becuase of the ingredients system... final version not yet designed.

The inventory system itself will not be changed - we work on a new function for it though.

The skills themselves are partitionally handled in another way than in Morowind. Raising special skills will not only be simply done by raising those points you see. You will raise YOUR skills ingame. By learning new things etc (and agian this does not mean paying someone money to get more skillpoints). We try to make it as realistic and fun as possible and as far away from any mathematic (D&D) system as possible.
_________________
Corv Dragon
-=(UDIC)=-
Leader of Titans of Ether
Lead Designer, Scripter and Worldbuilder of Redemption
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Break Man
Titans of Ether Fan
Titans of Ether Fan


Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 9:50 am    Post subject:

Quote:
The skills themselves are partitionally handled in another way than in Morowind. Raising special skills will not only be simply done by raising those points you see. You will raise YOUR skills ingame. By learning new things etc (and agian this does not mean paying someone money to get more skillpoints). We try to make it as realistic and fun as possible and as far away from any mathematic (D&D) system as possible.


Uh, does this mean the character attributes will be handled like the skills? In Morrowind, the only choices you made in character ability progression were in the attributes. Skills were raised by practicing each one and reading about how each skill in books.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Corv
Leader of Titans of Ether
Leader of Titans of Ether


Joined: 29 Jul 2021
Posts: 646
Location: Tirol, Austria

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 11:54 am    Post subject:

No this means that we dont give the player more possibilities only when he gets more points on a skill by dump reading books or paying money or doing the same thing over and over again till the skill is high. I wont get more specific here. You'll have to wait till the game is out.
_________________
Corv Dragon
-=(UDIC)=-
Leader of Titans of Ether
Lead Designer, Scripter and Worldbuilder of Redemption
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Antagonist
Titans of Ether Fan
Titans of Ether Fan


Joined: 22 Sep 2021
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:18 pm    Post subject:

In my opinion, if it is possible at least, get rid of the whole Morrowind skill system and implement a point buy system where the player can distribute points he get's everytimes he levels up. And no more XP for killing, please. I was always a friend of the idea that XP should be quest-based, meaning that you will get XP for completing them, the how is totally irrelevant. If you have a mission to rescue to idol of many farts you can steal it, kill everything in your path or take it out of the current holder. Doesn't matter how, you would get always the same XP. Combat XP is the most problematic aspect in CRPGs these days, because it favors strongly one special build of a character. While I know that Morrowind didn't give XP directly for killing, combat characters had still better chances throughout the game because it's what you did most of the time: Battling monsters.

Oh, one more thing: Implement dancing ! No true Ultima without my favourite spell: Dance. Who cares about sitting... Shocked
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
aubergine
Ultima Fan
Ultima Fan


Joined: 19 Sep 2021
Posts: 6
Location: Brisbane, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 4:05 am    Post subject:

Antagonist wrote:
If you have a mission to rescue to idol of many farts you can steal it, kill everything in your path or take it out of the current holder.


...

what?

Anyway, I don't mind the skills/level system in Morrowind. It's an original change from an XP based system, without being stunted like Ascension. The magic system is rubbish though. I actually found that aspect of Ascension quite enjoyable.
_________________
Hi.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Xodus
Titan of Ether
Titan of Ether


Joined: 16 Sep 2021
Posts: 122
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:42 am    Post subject:

Indeed, dance spell is a must.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message AIM Address
Break Man
Titans of Ether Fan
Titans of Ether Fan


Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 8:20 am    Post subject:

Quote:
In my opinion, if it is possible at least, get rid of the whole Morrowind skill system and implement a point buy system where the player can distribute points he get's everytimes he levels up. And no more XP for killing, please. I was always a friend of the idea that XP should be quest-based, meaning that you will get XP for completing them, the how is totally irrelevant.


The problem with this, is that it makes the game a little unrealistic and "console-style".

A point-buy system is great, but only for character generation, since it allows you to build your character's past and his/her life traits. But after that, it becomes unrealistic and a bit unrefined.

For example, I am a kickboxer. Every time I step into that ring and go through a round, I gain that much experience in that field. When I'm done for the day, the experience I gained cannot be distributed into other skills such as computer programming or basket weaving. I gain experience in kickboxing, hand-eye coordination, endurance, only skills that I had used.

Also, it does not make sense to gain experience for mere completion of quests. If I won a kickboxing match, I do not become better automatically. In fact, in the real life experience I've had in the matter, I only ever become better in the times I've lost.

For example, I can get a lucky shot in on some guy in a match, and knock him out cold in the first couple minutes. Since he was a big guy, simply being able to defeat him would be a great thing indeed. According to the "quest experience" system, I'd automatically become a better kickboxer for it. But in real life, I have learned nothing and the only thing I really gain is perhaps a heightened ego. (Undeserved though, since the win was a fluke.)

That's why I support the Morrwind skill system more. I gain skills in sword fighting by sword fighting. I gain skills in alchemy by performing alchemy. I do not gain the agility and coordination to swing an axe with expert precision because I did a few great quests that did not relate to any training with the said weapon.

I'm not saying a point-buy system is bad. I play D&D all the time. But if Redemption is going for realism, that idea is best left alone. I'm sure if they intend to make the Morrowind system more realistic, it will utilize learning strategies from real-life, so a player can immerse his/herself. A mathematic system, such as gaining experience points, just causes a lack thereof...

Quote:
Oh, one more thing: Implement dancing ! No true Ultima without my favourite spell: Dance. Who cares about sitting...


Ah, but it already exists!

I forget exactly what city, but there is a place called "House of Many Pleasures" somewhere, where women in undergarments effectively dance on stage. The only real thing to do in regards to this, would be to include a hotkey to initiate dancing, or make new/more dancing moves or styles. (The spell "Dance" can also be put to use in this field.)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Elewin
Ultima Fan
Ultima Fan


Joined: 20 Sep 2021
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Mon Sep 27, 2021 5:52 pm    Post subject: Leveling

So are you aiming for a leveling system like the older Ultimas (thou hast gained an eighth! ... HP jumps from 400 to 500) or based on skill use (HP elevates as a result of the culmination of higher skill levels)? I guess the short version is, will all skill improve as a result of combat or through fixing shrines? Wink One thing I liked about UO was that you grew in strength in the skills you spent all your time in ... one thing I didn't like was atrophe. But in a single player game, there was a great feeling about finally reaching a level and taking a stride forward. Also, it was kinda neat (and nostalgic) that you would have to speak to Lord British to raise levels... though it sounds like that wouldn't be an option in U10:TNK.

Hmm. One last question just occurred to me...

will both of your games use the same-ish play/level style?

Sorry for rambling... I must be excited!


...


For the GAMES, gentlemen!


________
"I'm sorry, Avatar, you're just not agile enough for me to train you... I might hurt you."
Guard Captain in Castle Brittan - U9:Ascension
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antagonist
Titans of Ether Fan
Titans of Ether Fan


Joined: 22 Sep 2021
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 9:00 pm    Post subject:

I won't open Pandora's Box of realism. Realism was never a point of computer games because you make adjustment to it where it is no fun anymore to do something the real way. Hygiene anyone ? Realistic damage model ?

Morrowind's skill system maybe was more realistic than the typical level up but was it also more fun ? I was bored to tears by having to hop two thousands times because I otherwise wouldn't get my stats high enough. Leveling has imo nothing to do with console style games but is a abstract method of showing development without burdening the player by actually making the necessary moves, like having to use the mouse the better your swordskill.

The same goes for quest-rewards only. It might not be realistic but works fine as a game mechanic. It makes different character builds more worthwhile because it is up to the player how to end a quest. Honestly, how many games with the typical xp-per-kill system favours other characters beside combat characters (aside Torment) ? Stealth characters are often screwed because by using their abilities they rob themselves of the needed XP, and even if there is XP for using stealth most people will get the XP for sneaking will go back and kill all monsters to get the extra XP.

Quest-XP only makes also the game easier to balance because the designer can make a fair estimation about the strength of a character at any given stage of the game.

So, to repeat myself: Some things works better as a game mechanic opposite to just copying reality.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Break Man
Titans of Ether Fan
Titans of Ether Fan


Joined: 10 Sep 2021
Posts: 88

PostPosted: Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:22 pm    Post subject:

I didn't say it was a bad thing, Antagonist. It just doesn't work well with the Morrowind engine, in my opinion.

Quote:
Stealth characters are often screwed because by using their abilities they rob themselves of the needed XP, and even if there is XP for using stealth most people will get the XP for sneaking will go back and kill all monsters to get the extra XP.


This, for example, would work better with Morrowind's skill system. Because if you used the system, where you get better stealth skills by using stealth, you wouldn't be screwed over at all. Even if you failed. There's still the lessons learned while sneaking, thusly making it easier for later.

Quote:
Quest-XP only makes also the game easier to balance because the designer can make a fair estimation about the strength of a character at any given stage of the game.


Well, this can be taken a few different ways. A designer that's building the game out of his out hide as opposed for the dollar, would just call it laziness to go with the level up system. But then again, this tactic allows more time to be spent on story or graphics and such.

It's up to the designer though. Level up systems always bored the hell out of me. And I can name dozens of other roleplayers that feel the same way. (It's why Fasa was once the most reknown RPG company until it sold out. It used a system that disregarded experience and leveling up, rather gaining each skill individually pending its use.) But then again, there are probably an equal amount that feel the exact opposite.

Go with what your gut tells you, people. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Antagonist
Titans of Ether Fan
Titans of Ether Fan


Joined: 22 Sep 2021
Posts: 34

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 2:19 pm    Post subject:

I like Morrowinds system on paper, but the execution falls flat in my opinion. Maybe they could adjust the learning-tables so that one does not have to fight for 15 hours against headless to get a skill that is enough to "defeat" a tougher enemy.

Suggestion: Did you ever think about synergy effects ? Like training your long sword skill should affect your short swords skill in a minor way as it is still the same weapon class.

Another suggestion: Make skills which you don't use drop over time. Depending whether the skill is primary, secondary or minor the skill drop would be slower or faster. It could eventually get rid one of the thinks that irks me most with Morrowind's skill system, that you can build an ueber character in no time if you will it. Skill drop encourage the player to stay true to a chosen "class".
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Corv
Leader of Titans of Ether
Leader of Titans of Ether


Joined: 29 Jul 2021
Posts: 646
Location: Tirol, Austria

PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2021 3:07 pm    Post subject:

I let you all dicuss about that without going deeper into our really planned system I jsut repeat myself once more: Our system wont support the palying style of MW or UO where you did the same things over and over to get good. Our games is NOT about raising skills. You will be able to do more things by playing and not by stupid repeating. Skill drop will not be implemented.
_________________
Corv Dragon
-=(UDIC)=-
Leader of Titans of Ether
Lead Designer, Scripter and Worldbuilder of Redemption
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    TITANS OF ETHER Forum Index -> Redemption All times are GMT + 1 Hour
Page 1 of 1

Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001 phpBB Group

Chronicles phpBB2 theme by Jakob Persson (http://www.eddingschronicles.com). Stone textures by Patty Herford.